Glad to see this. The Uniting Church, are leading the way in Christians for marriage equality.

Just as I was feeling very alone in my Christian understanding of supporting marriage equality etc… and I read this. Thank you God ❤

Speaking up about abuse not being okay in any form, including spiritual abuse by church people, is part of my journey.

Abuse of any type, is never okay and never excusable.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/marriage-equality-would-be-a-victory-for-ordinary-christians-20150626-ghyt4q

Uniting Church Minister Margaret Mayman writes “The recent decision to legalise marriage for same sex couples in Ireland has been cast as a victory against the Catholic Church. What secular commentators miss is that it was a decisive victory for ordinary Christians.”

I am so thankful, to help LGBTIQ, about correct Biblical interpretation.

I realise my understanding of LGBTIQ not being sin and why…. will fall on deaf ears with most church people.

I also realise it is a hard job speaking up about this with secular society and people who do not believe in God.

But, I feel the need to speak up where I can. And I do. And I know I will encounter people disagreeing with me.

When I do speak up, it sometimes is exactly what someone needs to hear, as happened today. For that, I am thankful and it helps me to realise, I need to continue.

I spoke up today and it was confirmed by a man, that it “meant a lot to him”, to read my views and “this gay guy can get along with you any time any where. Thank you for speaking out! More need to. If more were like you we would not have to put up with the likes of the gay bashing ACL”

I am so sad to know how much ‘gay bashing goes on’ by church people and the Australian Christian Lobby.

But, I am glad to be able to help this man and anyone else, who may have read it.

Yes, this is exactly how toxic religious people excuse & minimize abuse, and place abusive demands on victims.

These ‘demands’ religiously toxic and abusive people project, are BS.

This goes on a lot and I see this becomes a way for abusers to minimize the abuse, and project these demands onto others, including their victims….. which is not what is wise, healthy or appropriate.

They just play the ‘grace/forgiveness’ card and lord that over people.

They demand forgiveness, often without deserving it, without being honest about what they have done, without repentance. And without any regard as to the victims needs and the depth of suffering and harm caused.

They have NO right to demand forgiveness, grace. But, toxic, disordered, unwise people… use these demands well and for their own needs. It is never about the victims needs.

It’s so easy to abuse someone and then just say ‘God has forgiven me – so should you’.

Anyone with true repentance and compassion for their victims, would never demand or expect forgiveness – because they would know this is not ‘their’ choice, or demand to make.

I asked the question I had been avoiding…….. not looking forward to the response.

My doctor/counsellor, is a church person.

I have integrity to my beliefs about child abuse, including physical discipline – being child abuse. And that it is not excusable, or condonable and shows darkness to me, I cannot have in my life.

So, I’ve asked the question, as to whether she agrees with, promotes, enables and encourages hitting children, as okay.

I have to ask it.

I am completely committed to removing anyone who promotes child abuse………. out of my life, immediately.

I will not have that darkness, in my life.

If people are capable of planned intent child abuse (sociopathy) ……. they are capable of any darkness.

I will not allow that in my life.

If she says yes – she hit her kids, or allowed her husband to, and thinks it’s okay – I will no longer be going to counselling.

And I care about her, far more than I should, so this will be very hard to deal with and there will be intense emotions and grieving.

And a deep sense of feeling very disappointed yet again, by another person I wanted to trust. And it will be my own fault I know. I made the choice to go to counselling, I made the choice, to not ask the question a lot sooner…

Preparing myself for the answer.

I don’t ‘get’ most church people….

I have been abused by a church…..so I have seen many of their unhealthy behaviours in action.

I was discussing the devastating effects of church abuse, spiritual abuse with someone, who stated their son was abused in a church, by a church elder…..who yes was ‘pulled up’ by other elders, but continued to be an elder for years…..until he finally left.

How was a person capable of openly abusing people/children…..an elder in the first place?

I mean come on……church elders are meant to be those who are wise and for others to seek guidance from.

I know church elders who are abusers……they spiritually and emotionally abuse adults. They physically abuse their children, by belting them, and they have heavy focusses on physical discipline……none of which is actually Biblical when you know the correct meaning of certain verses.

My view is ‘how the fuck are they elders?’

Easy answer, because unhealthy churches, have unhealthy leaders, ministers and elders…

One thing I will never be pressured into believing is okay….is not believing the victim, fully.

I’m aware through my own experiences in life, that it is human nature with many, to always assume a victim of abuse, is potentially lying, or exaggerating.

And protect the accused abuser. I’ve endured with repeatedly.

The most recent was about abuse from a church minister. As I have blogged, everyone chose to believe what they ‘wanted‘ to believe.

Even my own doctor/counsellor used the words about the abuse that occurred that the narc minister and I were ‘seeking comfort in each other’. They were her exact words at the beginning, and I remember them very clearly. It was an assumption she made, that was wrong. Very wrong. It minimized completely what he was doing and his intentions. and what happened to me.

But, it was what her Christian conditioning, makes her need to believe this. And it is why perpetrator protecting occurs so much in churches.

After the mediation where it became far more clear to the professional people as to the darkness within him and his wife, and then the corrupt in-house investigation – where even she was lied about, I think she realised, I was in fact – telling the truth.

So, it shows that everyone can make assumptions, and they are nearly always invalidating and further abuse, about victims of abuse. This did add to my lack of trust in her and something else I should no doubt raise, as she has told me to raise anything that causes issues between us.

And not only did she not believe me when I was telling the truth from the start, but everyone else concerned, chose to not believe me.

I learned a huge lesson from this…

All this ever does – is aid, enable and help abusive people and allow them to continue.

And it further hurts, invalidates and abuses the victims more.

This particular abuser, has been promoted, another big issue within churches. I have been told this is a very unwise decision by the Baptist Church. But, I am not stupid, this is church – all denomination wide issue..

And this is exactly why so much abuse goes on within Churches and everywhere and one reason why abuse is increasing.

Is it any wonder, I don’t trust church people? Any of them.

I don’t even trust my own Christian counsellor/doctor, to deal with abuse appropriately. I’ve seen her make wrong assumptions. And her husband is an elder at the church they belong to. I wonder if any abuse victims have been treated like me, at that church?

The whole church issue, has been really bothering me.

I did think about maybe going to church again. But, it has been really bothering me and I just can’t do it. Knowing how badly churches deal with abusers and sex offenders and abuse that occurs, it is too great a risk and one I am not willing to take.

I will take my family to the Christmas carol service and a Christmas Day service, but as for being involved regularly, allowing my children to church youth groups…..no.

I know this will be deemed to be ‘my’ issues and I guess it would be, if I hadn’t already endured abuse & corruption from a church. If I hadn’t already done my research and found out how much child abuse is tolerated, encouraged and how badly so many churches deal with abuse. If I hadn’t already seen the outcomes of the Royal Commission – which any wise person will realise is a fraction of what really has gone on, and continues to go on, as most victims don’t come forward.

Is this really ‘my’ issues? It seems to me, to be church people issues. Church and denomination hierarchy issues.

But hey, always easier to blame the victims….

I know the damage child sexual abuse causes….I cannot take that risk, in places where I know perpetrators are protected, their abuse ignored if there isn’t 100% proof and knowing paedophiles are welcomed into many churches.

It’s just too great a risk to deal with.

My children do need to go to school and my eldest does go to school holiday camp….but these are not places where known paedophiles are welcomed, the way they are in churches. And I trust that schools and a supervised camp would deal with child abuse issues and potential dodgy people…far better than church people. I already know all the excuses used by church people.

Most abuse committed in churches has only come to light due to the Royal Commission. It would still be hidden, lied about, denied etc to this day.

Yeah sure, the churches are aware of this ‘now’, so are ‘made’ to step it up with regard to child safety and child protection…..but this is the mentality of church people…..they had to be FORCED to be honest and deal with it better. And too many are still failing to deal with abuse appropriately……I know……I have endured it.